By the end of the game, it is implied that the Fledgling has the potential to become His hatred for the Camarilla is second only to his hatred for the Kuei- Jin in Chinatown, They share an interesting love-hate relationship and, as the player. There's also one dialogue, at the Camarilla ending, to say to LaCroix, you want to Consider: you likely have a good relationship with Therese/Jeanette, the. The Masquerade is at the heart of the Camarilla's very existence. into the blood , the prince has a never-ending stream of Kindred currying for his favor. each other apart, and allow them to establish relationships other than kill-or-be-killed.
And so, the meaning of domain has been forced to change to meet the challenges of the modern Camarilla. In theory, the prince still holds Domain over his entire city. He then has the option of parceling out areas of control to be held by the Kindred of his choice. While the prince still holds ultimate authority, these smaller areas are a combination of fiefdom and controlled hunting preserve for the vampires lucky enough to receive them.
Of course, these Kindred are also responsible for enforcing the city's laws within their domains, so domain comes with responsibility as well as authority.
Vampires beget more vampires, and population control is a far more serious matter than among mortals.
What would happen to Mercurio if you went with the non-Camarilla ending?
Having too many vampires in a city threatens the Masquerade and makes hunting difficult. On the other hand, having too few Kindred leaves the city open to attack.
As a result, princes naturally want to know how many Kindred are in their cities, and to whom they putatively owe allegiance.
Hence, the rise of the Third Tradition. In the Camarilla, the right to create childer is one of the most fiercely sought after boons a prince can offer. So long as he controls the right to bring mortals into the blood, the prince has a never-ending stream of Kindred currying for his favor.
The dispensation to create is one of the most powerful tools a prince has in his arsenal for buying the loyalty of his or her subjects. Any neonate has the potential to blunder and thus bring down the Masquerade. If the player keeps her as their Ghoul, she will eventually be captured and killed by the Sabbat during one of the endgame missions.
There is no way to save her in the mission and although the developers did consider putting in the possibility to save her during development, it did not make it in the game; the only way to save Heather's life is to release her immediately after receiving the armor and before going to the Hollowbrook Hotel, although the option to let Heather leave is not always available after receiving the armor.
Vandal Cleaver[ edit ] Ghoul belonging to Therese who runs the "Blood Bank" in the basement of the hospital. The player can purchase blood packs from him until the Lily and E. If the player rescues Lily, Vandal refuses to sell any more blood packs to the player unless the player tricks one of the Asylum "Blood dolls" into taking Lily's place which results in a humanity point penalty for the playerbribes him with money, or threatens him into continuing to provide them.
Malkavian players may also use the Dementation discipline on Vandal, resulting in a laughing fit and allowing the player to purchase blood from him once again. As a Ventrue, the player can use Dominate to influence his will also. If the player chooses not to sacrifice the blood doll, offer money, use the Dementation or Dominate discipline or coerce him, Vandal's blood bank remains inaccessible until the endgame when he once again is willing to sell blood to the player.
Romero[ edit ] Ghoul belonging to Isaac who guards the Hollywood Cemetery, preventing zombies from escaping, a job he enjoys because he likes shooting things. Romero triggers one of two side quests, depending upon how the player interacts. Romero is in need of female companionship; one side-quest sees the player obtain the services of a prostitute for Romero; alternately, the player could agree to watch the cemetery for a while, launching a brief, but frantic first-person shooter scenario.
A third alternative is open to female characters with high enough seduction skill; they can offer to sleep with Romero, after which he becomes a "blood doll". He is named after legendary zombie movie director George A. Knox Harrington[ edit ] Santa Monica ghoul belonging to Bertram Tung who gives the player an early assignment, and who can also unlock the ability to buy weapons at the Santa Monica pawn shop.
Thin-Bloods[ edit ] Outcasts of vampire society, Thin Bloods are humans whose transformation to vampire was only partially successful, leaving them with weakened powers. Also, in-game lore has pointed that the blood of Caine is so weak in them, they cannot Embrace other mortals, thus making Thin Bloods reproduce via sexual intercourse. Rosa[ edit ] Rosa is a thin-blooded vampire seeking refuge on the beach of Santa Monica with E. The player first meets her during the Surf's Up quest where she will greet them when they first enter the beach and direct them to the top of the cliff where the men the player is looking for happen to be located.
Rosa possesses the ability to foretell the future. She is hesitant to share her gift with the player at first, but the player may offer her money for her unique insights. All of the predictions she makes will come true over the course of the game, and she makes some interesting references to Caine.
Some players suspect that Rosa's abilities are actually Malkavian insight. Lily was a young girl who liked to hang out in the Santa Monica diner where she met a vampire named Rolf Toten who was from Europe visiting California. He embraced her during the course of their relationship, but she did not become a full vampire, instead becoming a thin blood. Because the Thin Bloods are considered a sign of the vampire apocalypse, Rolf's clan would not accept Lily and Rolf left California shortly afterwards leaving Lily behind.
Her only solace was spending her nights in the Santa Monica diner. She met E, a surfer visiting Santa Monica for a major surfing tournament and the two fell in love. After Lily told E. Shortly afterwards Lily went missing and E. During their time apart Lily had tried to rob the Santa Monica Blood Bank and was caught by one Vandal and used as a 'blood doll'.
With the player's help, the two can get back together and decide to live their afterlives at a retreat in Oregon owned by Lily's relatives where they can be together. Copper[ edit ] A gullible Thin Blood who will buy "vampiric cures" from the player if the Persuasion feat is high enough. He will buy chewing gum to erode his fangsup to three bags of "unicorn" blood, and the "Holy Stake.
All three will result in Humanity losses, but letting him go after the President will also result in a Masquerade Violation. Julius[ edit ] A nervous, stuttering Thin Blood who the player discovers later in the game is telling vampire stories to David Hatter. The player is sent on a mission to kill him, but can choose to let him leave Los Angeles for a Humanity bonus. Letting him leave will not violate the Masquerade. But vampires DON'T have a heat signature.
As the Mandarin said in the Chinatown club Glaze: It is room temperature.The Breakup - 1 Year After Ending My 8 Year Relationship & Engagement
Vampires are colder than humans by a long way but not room temperature. They're full of stolen blood and they move around, so generate some heat. Not a lot, though. Without being really active, they would be pretty close to room temperature. Well, I always thought that the Society of Leopold merely had laser tripwires. Cross the light and it goes boom, really similar to a normal tripwire. They can probably adjust it so it doesn't react to the humans - if the temperature is within these normsthen don't blow up.
At any rate, it's pretty easy to have a tripwire that doesn't trigger when your guys go through, so it should be possible to have it go off only when not-your-guys go through. Vampires, in this case. An idea supported by the fact that you can hack said explosives to go off when humans pass through. Why did not occur to anyone, LaCroix in particular, that a modern day power tool like a jack hammer or an industrial sized pile driver if you want overkill, could be used to open the Ankaran Sarcofaghus?
If its empty, no big loss asides from the waste of time, money and effort. Trifles to a Ventrue Prince like LaCroix. If it has an ancient evil in it, best to open in a time and place like, at ground zero of a nuke test site of your choosing.
If there IS an Ancient Vampire to Diablerize, waiting for a missing key to open a coffin made of rock which isn't be best material to resist a sledgehammer in the hands of even a "weak" vampire like LaCroix seems silly when you can bust it open, by hand if need be.
The only possible explanation I could surmise was that LaCroix is being careful and wanted it opened as quietly as possible as to not "wake up" what he believed was a sleeping Ancient that might go on a killing spree. Even that doesn't seem to quite fit though, as he's put the Sarcophagus in the same room as him in his office, making him potential casualty 1, Sheriff or no Sheriff to hide behind. There are so many horrible booby traps, mystical and otherwise, that one can set up for something opened incorrectly.
So, what happened to the Dane crew? Jack would be a thrall of the beast if he did it, so who? That would let him off his punishment. And in any case you need to do more than kill people to completely lost yourself to the Beast.
A serial killer vampire is still Humanity 3 or 4. Jack's Humanity is 4, according to LA by Night and that was ten years prior to the game.
At that level, it's easy to justify murder. At Humanity 3, killing people stops bothering Kindred and their karma meter. You can actually see that in game - killing innocent NPCs can only bring you down to 3. Jack openly admits that he views humans as little more than cattle but he doesn't slaughter them for fun.
While a say, Humanity 10 Toreador may disagree with that statement, it's left entirely up to the interpretation of the player who did the killing on the Dane. If Jack planned the whole plot out before hand, the crew probably isn't dead. The crew list was just fake identities, the REAL crew was ghouls or criminals who thought they were abandoning the ship as a hand-off, and all the blood around is just Jack finger painting with some blood packs.
Except leaving the crew alive just leaves more lose ends who can spoil the plot. Too many things could go wrong if he leaves the crew alive; namely they would have to be onboard up until they got close enough to LA to avoid the ship just vanishing into the middle of the ocean, they'd have to get the crew off, past the coast guard, into LA, there is this wonderful thing call Forensic Blood analysis that would tell if it was blood packs, not to mention that Jack just doesn't have the skill or patience to pull off a hoax.
That same year as the game took place in the police knew him, by his name and monikor, for having kidnapped the daughter of a wealthy and influential couple, so he is not a very subtle vampire. Jack is willing to level a downtown city block with C4, and you've seen him kill with aplomb in the tutorial.
He's causing a war for giggles that is already boiling out into crapsack L. How many Kine did you end up killing chasing his little jack-in-the-box around the city all by yourself? Let's not pretend he's a nice guy that fakes records when just killing some Kine will get the job done. Actually, I suppose, there are chances something actually WAS inside sarcophagus not an Antediluvian, just some creature.
While whether it's an plain old corpse, a vampire in Torpor, or something else is left up in the air, it very definitely isn't walking around. It just bugs me a little that every haven with the exception of the Nosferatu you get in the game has uncovered windows.
Actually, only the very crappy first apartment seemed to have windows. The Skyline and Chantry havens are windowless. Also, the first apartment has plywood laid out for you to cover the windows with. But it's mostly that LaCroix wants you dead, which is why you have to prove yourself to someone to get out of that deathtrap.
Well, the Tremere chantry has curtained-over windows, which would be useless against sunlight, really but I guess it's better than nothing.
Maybe if you open the curtains you get to see a brick wall? It's pretty simple, too - only level 1. This is their chantry. Makes perfect sense that all they would have the effect on all the time.
Odd thought, when Skelter asked you to deal with a Ghoul named Patty who was looking for a blood fix, why was there no option of just giving her some YOUR vampire blood. Sure Patty seems like a Jerk Ass but killing her by sending her to Vandal, Pisha, alley for you to drain dry or just kill seems a bit drastic. Making her your pet seems a much less cruel and leaves less lose ends than the in-game Take a Third Option of telling her "master" is in another city.
Sooner or later she's going to figure out she's been had and when she starts screaming bloody murder about Vampires, she'll be in another city, out of your immidiate reach, and likely ANNOYING the local Vampires there if anyas well as wrecking hell on the Masquerade.
getting camarilla ending - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Message Board for PC - GameFAQs
By that point, you may already have another pet Heather and people might be concerned if you start 'collecting' ghouls. Besides, if you recruit Patty, she's probably a little too crazy to be of uch use. I agree that murder is a little extreme, but if you don't someone else will, inevitably. Two Ghouls is hardly a 'collection', I recall Grout's mansion being full of em. As a good, non-murdering vamp, letting her go to 'eventually' get killed by other vamps that get annoyed by her doesn't seem much better than the Vandal or Pisha choice.
You're just some random off the street who got embraced. Besides, Grout's Malkavian to boot, he probably gets a bit of leeway, and it's implied that very few people have actually been in his mansion and seen what he's been up to. People might start talking however, if some random neonate of uncertain loyalties started putting together his or her own cabal of minions.
Given that you killed a Sabbat Elder, Werewolf, Kuei Jin clan with Priestess, and one joke of a Prince and his Bodygurd, possibly all in one night, you're entitled to a little slack right?
Two Ghouls seem like a start. In fairness, unless you've postponed the quest to the endgame for some reason, by that point you haven't done anything but blow up a sabbat warehouse.
Impressive, but not as mindblowing as all the stuff you've mentioned. Buying time to justify your Ghouls. Having two might be pushing your luck a little. I've always kind of assumed that LaCroix is giving you all this, when it should be your Clan's duty to teach you, because it makes you easier to manipulate. Prince's emissary might as well be 'scapegoat' among vampires. Oh, no question he's trying to manipulate you, and get you to do his dirty work, but this is Vampire.
That's kind of expected. Realistically though, as far as Camarilla laws go, he is still being remarkably leniant. And you pushing the boundaries of that leniancy would be more than enough reason to behead you. Attempting to behead the PC outside of the astonishingly small window of opportunity between bewildered neonate and Killing Machine is likely to lead to a curbstomping.
Wonder what the implications of THAT would be Back to the original question, the reason you can't feed Patty your blood is because she is blood bound to another vampire. That is she is obsessively in love with said vampire. So she doesn't want just any blood, she wants his. To elaborate a bit, once you drink a vampire's blood three times you are absolutely emotionally bound to that vampire until the bond is broken, which takes about a full year of not getting any blood from that vampire until it wears off enough for other bonds to take effect or until the death of the vampire in question, whichever comes first.
She'd develop some feelings for whoever gave her blood, but they'd always be second fiddle to the initial vampire which was the issue.
You're buying Patty time. She's gone for awhile without feeding and by the time she realizes that her vampire is nowhere in a very large city more time will have passed for the bond to weaken and she might just go back to being a normal human and lose interest in accidentally breaking the Masquerade looking for that guy. Except you're back at the original problem; she's blood bond to that guy, it's going to take an entire year for the bond to weaken enough for her to get over it.
The Anarchs need her dealt with now, so your choice would be limited to essentially kidnapping her and keeping her locked up for the next year while hooked on your blood or dealing with her in a more permanent fashion. She's in another city, though, looking through that very big city for traces of her vampire and she'll have to try and get in with the vampire crowd to try and find him since she doesn't expect everyone to know him.
It's already been awhile since she last fed from him and it'll be awhile before she becomes enough of a pain that the people in the new city want her dead. Maybe she'll have be able to have it wear off to the extent that she doesn't get herself killed and maybe the vampires elsewhere will kill her.
Either way, it's not the LA Anarchs' problem anymore. Which doesn't really solve the problem, just kicking it over to make it someone else's problem. Great short term, until she fucks up and the Cam has to step in. And of course they'd make sure to find out just who is responsible for ghouling this woman with no discretion, which points back to the LA Anarchs, which just reinforces the Camarilla's position that the Anarchs can't be trusted to keep the Masquerade.
I mean sure that doesn't happen because the world ends less than a year after the end of the game, but it still brings up long-term problems since Patty can't keep her trap shut. Ghouls are also walking Masquerade violations, literally. They are mortals who know that vampires exist.
The fact they know this because a vampire decided they'd make a good superpowered servant is not relevant. They exist pretty much only as long as whoever's in charge decides to look the other way on this particular type of Masquerade violation. Now, the fact they're blood bound and will do pretty much anything their domitor says to get their next fix mitigates these problems somewhat, but it still comes down to the fact that this is a mortal who has knowledge of vampires and no concrete reason to keep that knowledge to themselves provided they're young enough they can survive running out of blood in a month.
Answers both "why can't the PC have multiple ghouls" and "why can't Patty be dealt with non-lethally" questions: If Patty becomes too troublesome, the Prince can execute her and whoever made her for being Masquerade violations. Since vampires seem to disappear when the die, why is there a skeleton in the bed of Grout's Mansion that is supposed to be Grout? Is Grout still "alive"? Maybe there's a kind of Buffy-logic operating here, where older vampires may leave behind a skeleton or something.
However, every important vampire that gets ashed that you need to pick something up from the only other that immediately jumps to mind is the Nosferatu in the sewers leaves a skeleton, so I'd put it down to gameplay-storyline segregation. And anyway if Grout is alive, he sure as hell isn't when Bach blows his house up.
In the table-top, the amount of time it takes for a vampire's body to turn to ash depends on how long they've been around for. Very old vampires turn to ash pretty much instantly, while fledglings take days.
Grout wasn't that old, so it would take his body more than an hour to turn completely to ash we can assume he was killed just shortly before you arrived. Just wondering if Grout took a skeleton from somewhere, sprinkled ashes over it, and headed out of town with his "wife" the thing in the Aquarium being a decoy. Ignore what you don't like.
Sure perhaps Grout ran off he can come back for his wifeI mean the Malkavian voices as unpredictable and unreliable as they can be could've warned him or doomed him Hours-old shovelheads turn to ash instantly in this game.
It's a simple case of artistic license. More interesting and less open to interpretation to find a pile of ashes and a skeleton on Grout's bed than nothing.
So what was Ming Xiao's final form? Is it something Kuei-Jin normally turn into? Nope but there are Kuei-Jin shape-shifting powers that can be customised so she will have chosen that as a war form. Best not to think why. It's a Kuei Jin discipline that grants a warform.
Adds bonus attributes and in Xiao's case, apparently, the ability to barf acid. It looks different for every Kuei Jin, depending on their Beast they call it the P'o, but a spade is a spade. Xiao must have been reading too much Lovecraft. Why do the vampires think Patty's a problem? Wouldn't Kine think she's either drunk, mad or looking for attention? Perhaps most of them. But you never know when the word could get out to a hunter.
Or somebody who could uncover something. Or she could do something dangerous and stupid, as an example - going on TV and saying she's looking for her vampire master.
Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines / Headscratchers - TV Tropes
Better safe than sorry, is the vampire's policy in most cases, also Patty is expendable. The VTM world seems "Normal" Perhaps its due to the limited depth the game could go into, but asides from drinking blood and needing to hide from the sun and all the cool powers being a Vamp get youthe Vampire world is full of centuries old conspiracy, deadly plots, backstabbing, politics, two faced scheming literally Just like Real Life. How is this supposed to be: The World of "Darkness"? Just to state the obvious, the real world doesn't have vampires controlling it that we know of.
Besides, crime in the game seems a lot more widespread, as street fights start in the middle of the road, two gangs were trading something in a car park, and a weird, disease worshipping cult rose all at the same time in Downtown alone. The conversation with Wong Ho implies that vampires tend to bring crime with them as easy mooks, like Ming-Xiao. Still sounds like a typical bad neighborhood actually. In the real world, even in crappy neighbourhoods, the police usually have to announce themselves before shooting and museum security guards definitely do.
The Police take a while longer to give up chasing violent murderers who attacked people in the street as well. Paramilitary groups can't operate out of Hollywood with impunity. The way White Wolf always meant it: Ok, so its a bad neighborhood in Afghanistan then.
A bad neighborhood in Afghanistan in the United States. You don't want to know what oWoD Afghanistan looks like. Perhaps some places ARE worse than others Smiling Jack recalls seeing an entire Mexican town being turned into a resident Tzimisce's experiment ground. It bugs me a little on a logistic note that you can actually fight the Rokea but not the Werewolf.
Aren't those races about comparable in power level? And don't Werewolves take aggravated damage from flamethrowers just like the rest of us? As cool as it is to fight it, ditto. Sadly, unless using silver bullets, high explosives or industrial grade machinery, most vamps probably can't kill a werewolf. As to why the flamethrower didn't work in game, chalk it up to either gameplay and story segregation or the fact that these werewolves emerged unharmed from a forest fire, so its likely they had some way to counter fire.
My guess is some form of magic or a stolen canister of liquid fire retardant. Actually, in oWoD, killing A werewolf might be difficult, but doable for clever vampires. The point is that it's never A werewolf, but werewolves.
With spiritual links to totems that give power, and their own magic powers. Oh yeah, and they can technically return from death's door. All things being equal, a vampire is more or less physically on par with a crinos werewolf at Potence 2, Protean 2, Celerity 3 and Fortitude Werewolves are tough out of the box, but not unkillable for a sufficiently combat stated vampire in a straight up fight.
The PC should be able to kill the werewolf conventionally, I assume Troika just felt it would be more interesting to have the encounter be a puzzle rather than another boss battle. Eh, we should remember that the werewolves depicted in VtM are supposed to be bigger and badder than the Garou from WtA. They are supposed to serve as antagonists and meeting one is supposed to go down like in Bloodlines.
Troika very accurately captured how werewolves should be seen by Kindred perspective. Sure, if RAW is followed, the werewolves aren't really that scary, however, that's missing the intention behind them.
The Lupines are purposefully not statted as WtA characters. Are they supposed to be bigger and tougher in VtM than in WtA? I assumed they were supposed to be equivalent, and differences in statting were largely for the sake of saving storytellers from having to juggle multiple complex game systems at once. Either way, it doesn't explain why the game gives you the option of taking down a rokea in combat but not a werewolf; they're both fera, and are about as powerful.
Yes, the VtM werewolves are always depicted as the ultimate enemies of vampires. If you follow WtA rules, they aren't as scary - better at combat, but vampires can easily surpass them with some Disciplines. Sure, on mechanical level the Garou and Rokea are mostly similar but from vampiric in-universe perspective, the Lupines have always been the better predators and they've been cutting leeches to ribbons for a lo-o-ong while.
Which is exactly why it makes sense to make the werewolf in-game be scarier than a just random shark-thing - it keeps the feel and intention of VtM intact. I don't agree that making the werewolf invincible keeps the intention of VtM intact, not at all. If a vampire insisted on challenging a werewolf in a VtM game, the storyteller wouldn't simply say "nope, you can't hurt it, it's your ultimate enemy, you lose;" they would let the fight play out, and your typical neonate would more than likely be destroyed in the process.
It doesn't matter how you slice it, there isn't really any reason for why Troika handled the werewolf in Bloodlines the way they did other than, simply, because it's a puzzle, not a fight. And it is absolutely incongruous with the level of power your character exhibits earlier in the game. You can and do fight foes in Bloodlines as challenging or moreso than a werewolf, but the werewolf is the only one that's technically impervious to your attacks, and it feels very much like an arbitrary decision made to force the player to deal with it in a particular way.
No, an ST wouldn't refuse the players challenged a werewolf. But if the ST threw one suddenly, it's usually not for the players to fight it. And they could theoretically win. Especially if one of them was powerful enough to contend with foes on the scale of rokea, 7th generation Nagloper or elder Kuei Jin.
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